Brett Interviews Marketing Expert Richard Marc

Transcript of EPISODE 12:

Hello and welcome to the Fiit Edition of Podcast, the number one Podcast for Fiit Professionals looking to build their fitness business. If you’re after more clients, more income and more free time then you’ve come to the right place. Visit podcast.fiitprofessionals.com.au today.

Brett: Hello Fiit Professionals and welcome to another episode of the Fiit Professional Business Podcast. I’m your host Brett Campbell and today I’ve got another special guest with me and I have been waiting to get this gentlemen on the call for some time we’ve been trying a bit of e-mail, Phone Tag, like you do. That’s what happens when you’re a busy man and before I introduce you to this particular gentleman, I just want to give you a bit of a heads up if you haven’t listened to any past episodes. The episode prior to this I talked to Michael Parella from United States you had 320 fitness franchises. He revealed some amazing marketing strategies. So make sure you give that…listen to that episode as well and leading on from that particular episode we are going to be talking to another marketing genius today. This gentleman, his name is Richard Marc Toutounji. Hope I said that right. You’ll correct me in a moment if I’m wrong.

Basically Richard Marc is an expert in creating high business growth for small to medium size businesses basically through lead generation marketing platforms. So Richard, an online marketing strategist has been for about 15 years and has a lot of experience in starting, building and selling those companies. his product and services include a bestselling book, it’s been featured on hundreds of media streams, including ‘Current Affairs’, ‘TODAY show’, 6pm Nightly News. also Richard is the executive producer of a Travel & Wellness show called ‘Feel good TV’ so that’s being aired in Australia here. You may remember Richard possibly in 2011 he was on ‘The Amazing Race Australia’ and fast forward to today, Richard is the CEO of COM Marketing Group, which has over 100 unique online lead generation platforms, including one of his first lead generation platforms which we may know him from called ‘Meet Your Personal Trainer’. Which is one of Australia’s largest professional trainer directories. So it’s a bit of a mouthful there, there’s a whole lot of awesome insight into this particular gentleman so I’m going to hand straight over and say Richard welcome to the Fiit Professional Podcast mate, thanks for taking the time to be on here.

Richard: Yeah, thanks a lot Brett. I appreciate the interview as well. Thank you!

Brett: Yeah, not a problem. So Richard, I’ve told all our guests and listeners a little about yourself here, but we want to get to know you a little better so give us a bit of a background of where Richard Marcs came from and how you got to where you are today.

Richard: Sure I can do that. I guess there’s obviously a lot of fitness professionals and business leaders listening to a Podcast like this. Obviously they’re following yourself Brett so I guess I’ll put on my hat to the fitness professionals as well. You mentioned before, my focus is about lead generation and lead strategies and so forth. I guess that all comes from the fitness industry. I started a fitness industry and I remember doing my first case course and there was no RCO’s and you did easy advertising about personal training courses on the news, on the radio and so forth, and TV. So I did my course and I left Year 6…I left Year 10 sorry. Year 10 and I went straight there and did a one year crash course. I guess I started really early in the industry and I loved the marketing side of things. I read a little personal training and it was about personal training business for a few months there and then I purchased the young age of about 17. I purchased Strays first private fitness studio down at Mitchell’s bay there, next to Network Office down there. I ran it for about 2 years and the thing that I loved about that was…it really gave me some good insight into mark…be coming into the business at 17. People working there 10 years your senior, it’s really tough way to get involved into business, and learning some responsibility. So I love the marketing side on how to growing…just growing your studio back then, when after dating, learning about those factors and what it takes to run a business early. SoI spent sometime in the industry, I worked on cruise liners for a year, about a year or 2 after that. That was a heap of fun and I loved, I was very proud about that. In around the Caribbean, Alaska, and a lot of that was actually in the Caribbean so it was good. When I got back, when I was over there I saw an obesity epidemic happening more than it was happening in Australia and heavily large people would go on cruise liners. The entire family would just come and come to the food places and Brett, and that’s really what they paid for all day.

Brett: Buffet all day.

Richard: We’ll going to eat buffet all day and so, when I was there I started having this ideas for this book I wanted to write. It was something that I wrote while I was overseas and I came back, I just had to get this book out of me and I wrote about a year or 2. You flip the page a bit, I guess it was learning as well. It was all about childhood obesity and family health and it was called ‘Please Mom, Don’t Supersize me’. It got a lot of press and media coverage on TV being the name and we put a lot of work into it. It sold quite well, Bestseller in Australia and it was a lot of fun, getting a book out and doing the publicity for it and moving through it. That actually pulled me back into marketing. It taught me a lot about marketing, marketing online, marketing offline. Knowing if you’re going to do it bigger, do it TV interview prime time and then you can actually get the sales online and it sort of showed me a TV interview is sometimes a branding aspect versus an online sale. So I looked at the 2 aspects and I said “Hey I’ve been on all these prime time, thousands and hundred thousand dollars’ worth of media, let’s see how the online sales went. If I used that, the value of that PR, what could that have been used for an online thing?” So I learnt a lot of tactics about marketing while fellows actually doing it, so I guess I never went to a marketing course per say. I learned on the job quite a lot in regards to…so I guess in the same time I stood up, being an entrepreneur I sort of, I had a…my mom actually had a problem me being a personal trainer as a company going from that, and then she said, “Aah geez, it would be great to have a massage at work, the workplace”, and that sort of got me thinking. I was thinking they’re paying…they’re looking for a, she was the HR co-ordinator in the company and had about 200 people in the company. I mean they were looking for a massage, a person doing a massage company to do that at their office so it was sort of like, I said “aah, I think I can do that”. So I sort of out looked and tried to find massage therapists to go to the office and do a whole day of massaging chairs, things like that around the work place. From that moment I guess I kicked on, what it was my next business which we called our ‘Corporate Wellness’, which is one of Australia’s largest Corporate Wellness providers. We provided seminars. We had doctors, we did health checks we did personal training we did nutritional courses. We did a heap of things around a lot of blue chip companies around Australia and I owned and runned that for quite a few years. I sold that a few years ago to someone else who continues the growth in that. So, again, unless I’m like that Brett, it taught me a lot of…it taught me how to go online pretty much. We had 80 contractors working for us around Australia. 97% of our leads came from online, and I’m talking about online, back let’s say 2003 or 4, when internet wasn’t what it was today. We didn’t have Facebook and social media and things like that so learning the internet game is was an experiment, you know what I mean? It was new, so that sort of where I started this whole process, you know what I mean? That’s where I had more interest for the online game. Being the example of offline, its older studio and things like that. I remember my first year, we didn’t have, didn’t even have a website address for goodness sake or an e-mail address or business cards. So its come a different way and the marketing in it changed through that period.

Brett: Yeah, look mate. There’s…I couldn’t agree with you more in regards to changes in marketing, especially in online and offline and I look forward to talking about all these strategies in a moment but just to recap on what you’ve just said there. There’s a heap of gold little nuggets that I took out of it personally and I just want to recap just for the listeners there that, you started back in the industry wearing your spandex and belt bags basically when personal trainers first started right.

Brett: I’ve got an image of you wearing your spandex and walking around the gym with a belt bag.

Richard: I did have to do the aerobics, you have to do the aerobic to actually pass the course and do the classes…I did all that.

Brett: Excellent, and you know, another really key thing that I see out of that is at the age of 17 you bought your business and what I did take out of that is you didn’t know anything about business back then but you jumped in and had a crack at it. You realised a book, again, you took a lot of lessons out of that. But again the reoccurring thing I’m seeing out of here is just you just had a crack at it. I guess a question I’ve got for you buddy, in regards to all your marketing knowledge that you know so far, what would you say your biggest lesson, or business lesson that you’ve learnt over the time?

Richard: Umm, that’s a good question. It’s a hard question as well. I think you keep learning business lessons all the time. Constantly all the time, every single day and you think you’ve learnt it, and you haven’t learnt it. I guess the biggest lesson I’ve learnt is, I’ve done a lot of business with myself, partnerships and all sorts of way, and I think in the end of the day, you can’t run a business by yourself. Well I can’t anyway. And all great businesses have great people. you know, a lot of people listening to this call, could be more businesses, could be start-ups, could be large businesses but the same time, it doesn’t matter what that stage is. As soon as you grow in business, you need good people around you. I think that it is really important to make sure that you set up a business know that you could have a business, and you could have a business that you’re the business. If you want to get bigger than that, and have more freedom, then freedom is one of my biggest values, you need to start making sure you get the right people around you and don’t just get people that are there because they just happened to be in the same room in the time that you needed. In administration or a business partner, makes sure you find the people that you need who are actually going to help you to grow the business. Not grow, not for the simplicity that you just ask your mate down the road or you know that person. It’s who’s going to help you grow your business to the next level, and grow the business the way you can’t grow the business. We are only one person, we only have generally a limited thinking. Imagine how big the world is and all the people in it like… There is so many different variations you can take and there’s so many different wrong roads you can take. That is probably why people don’t start their business. If you know that you’re a personal trainer and you want, for example, take a lesson of corporate world. I now want to expand on Corporate Wellness, so a lot of that time is going to be administration and organisation skills and things like that. Well I know that I’m not good that that, but you know, for the sake it that my brother needs a job at a time. I say “Hey, can you help me out for a couple of days?” That’s not really going to be the right track because he might not have those skills too so I guess make sure that you find the people with those skills and I think also too…another lesson here is don’t limited yourself to think “I’m just starting out in business and nobody is going to want to go and come to work for me”. “I can’t pay them enough’ or “I don’t have the right skill”, ‘So I don’t have a system manual put into place”, or “don’t have an office” or “I don’t have the right computer system to get things started”. “I have to do it myself’. I think that the big thing I see with the fitness industry, and the thing is, in the defence about it…people are there at the right time that you need them to be and for example…you could find the best administration assistant that has work for the best company for the last 20 years. Maybe she is on maternity leave and she just wants to work 3 day s a week for you. She wants to put her system in, because that’s what she loves to do into your business. Don’t think that you have to go and create every system yourself. Get someone to help you where you’re not really good at, because that’s when I get business it’s going to go slow growth if you just think, ‘You know what, I’ve got to write a system manual myself for the next 6 months, then I can employ somebody’.  If you do that then your business is not going to continue to grow. Don’t think that you have to do everything yourself, also have the confidence to ask the right people in the business and I think that’s the biggest lesson I’ve learnt over time. I’ve tried to take a lot on and I’ve tried to do a lot of things myself, but there’s things that you can’t and you need to get people sooner than you probably think you’re going to get it firstly. Think the first person you find to employ.

Brett: Look that’s absolutely, it’s definite wisdom right there. Man thins is like the third time this has happened in interview actually. What you’re talking about right now is I’m actually going through a bit of a process like that with our team at the moment. Before this Podcast recording we just had a team meeting. So we just sit down, we spend an hour together going through our board meeting structure etcetera and there was about 5 different systems that we created, well I created in my brain, then passed it onto our team members who are now out there creating this for me. Like, I put my ideas out there because I’m an ideas man. You’re an ideas man yourself, so anyone out there listening who thinks they’re an ideas person and they lack a little bit of the structural follow through. Man, like Richard just said, get out there and find someone who can do it for you because it is just going to fast track your success. Another key point that I took out of that is, I agreed with everything you said there but I think one of the main things is that you don’t need to start paying someone $50 000 a year salary. You can start possibly someone taking over your basic admin duties for 5 hours a week or 10 hours a week. Pay them 20 bucks an hour or something like that. There are people out there looking for it. So look, thanks for sharing that. I guess, moving on to it, I’ve got another question for you and I really like to hear the answers to these is, what was your ‘ah hah’ light bulb moment that you knew that the online marketing was an avenue that you knew that you needed to take? What was it that made you do that?

Richard: Umm, I think for me when you are online…I guess its 2 things in this question. I guess I go back to the time, when I answer these questions, I go back to the journey and you sort of go look at it and think ‘well, it hasn’t been a journey to get to where you’re getting to, and you continue to get to’. So I guess the journey for me…when I was in the White Falls Cooper Warner’s Company, so when I had my corporate wellness company I had just had myself, my wife caught me out. I had 2 admin people at the time as we said; we generate a lot of leads online. I didn’t really know what I was doing. I know probably more than most people, why I was ranking number 1 in terms of corporate wellness and things like that. I knew the insides of it. I did a lot of bits and pieces, courses online if you want to call it that.

But there was a moment when I went to an Anthony Robbins event, it was a ‘Date with Destiny’ event in Gold Coast and the week, it was a 5 day, 6 day event and you had to partner up, not with your partner, so I had to partner up with people I didn’t know for the whole event. I ended up sort of, I think I was in the bathroom at that time and I missed out and there was sort of, it just seemed to me like everybody was just taken in a second and I walk around trying to find who was left and I bumped into this, the only guy that was left in the entire room of 1000 people and it happened to be an American gentleman. He stood out like the ace of spades. He was black as could be. I said “Hey mate, how you going? You got a partner?” he said “No”, “Okay, I will go with you for the week”. I ended up going with this guy and a lot of the week you had to stick with your partner for most of the week. You had to stick with him. You had to do activities and things like that. His name was Steve, Steven and a lot of the time he would just disappear Brett. Whenever we had to do group activities, he just disappeared and I could never find him. So I was just by myself most of the week. The end of the week, we all got our certificates and so forth, had a great week either way, and I said “Hey listen, we didn’t get to know each other, what do you do?” we didn’t have much time either to sort of talk about what we actually did because it was all about self-development, not exactly about what job you did. He says “Listen Richard, I live in America, why don’t you just come visit me. I’m going to the States soon, why don’t you just come and visit me. I’ve got a big party happening over there soon”.  And I go, “what’s your details?”. He goes “Just google me Richard” and I go “Who do you think you are…just google you. Who are you?”. And it was like he was this guy and so anyway I googled him and he happens to be a guy named Steven Pierce. At the time he was heavily, quite a massive guru online, one of the best internet marketers at that stage and he was over here actually prepping for his interview he’s going to put on a week later. He was going to put a massive event online in Australia and the organisers doing Robbins event where the organisers of his event as well. The thing that, because he was away most of the week, he was actually organising his event and he just got a free ticket from Tony Robbins to the event to come and hang out with him. It was interesting because in that moment, and it was quite embarrassing too Brett because I said “Aah yeah, I do a bit of things online”.

Richard: And I go “Oh yeah, I’ve used typestyle and I’ve used this” and he says “Aah yeah, that’s good, that’s good”. And here am I sitting with a guy making millions of dollars online every month. So he was a good insider and he gave me a lot of his tools and his resources and his programs, all for free. He simply said “Hey Richard, my lack of time man, these are the programs I’m going to give you, you know and you’re [inaudible] quite a few times we met with some of the best online marketers at the time was J Abraham, there was a heap of other people there. There was Tim Ferriss walked in the door actually, when we had the party, and opened the door and Tim Ferriss walked in. This is before, this was the week he was launching his first book. For our work week, he opened the door and he said “Hey, how’s it going? I’m Tim”, and I said “Hey, how you going, you’re in a book.” And it was sort of that week when he was launching it. He was such a cool, laidback guy and I was thought, “Jeez, this is what internet marketing is all about. These are the people that we’re surrounding our self with”.

Pretty much from then Brett, that was my first ‘ah hah’ moment. I guess my second one was, I came back and I was still in Lifestyle & Wellness and it sort of made me think about this online marketing. From that event, I went to the next one and I said I had Lifestyle there, proper wellness and a lady called up on the phone and said “Hey can I see your…can I…you know, have a bio of your personal trainers?”. She was in Perth, I was just staying in Perth as well. I said “Aah I don’t, but let me take a picture” and she goes “Aah that will be great” and I said “Hang on, I’m getting a question asked quite a few times. Why don’t I take a video?” so what I did Brett, I started doing more videos on my innovative people and I thought, hang on, if I can do this for them, why don’t I do this for the whole of the industry. In that time, we didn’t have any YouTube smashing out, people weren’t’ recording videos so I came up with the idea of having a video directory of personal trainers. So I guess, that in itself, when they ask for personal trainers with videos, nobody had videos Brett. It is impossible to find videos on YouTube on personal trainers. It was sort of like, you know what, I’m, because of the first moment of Steven Pierce and meeting people like that, and actually seeing people succeeding like that I had the confidence to say, you know what I can help every single personal trainer here, because I think that I know more than 98% of them at that time about online marketing. It’s moments like that, I think they’re my 2 ‘ah hah’ moments that got me on online marketing and from there, just really having that self-belief Brett, to actually go and do something that’s probably way out of your comfort zone but it’s way out of everybody’s comfort zone isn’t it. So somebody’s got to do it, don’t they? So I think they are my main 2 moments getting on the online space.

Brett: Yeah, well thanks for sharing that. I was actually really captivated to that first story. It it’s quite funny when you look at it, you went to a seminar called ‘A Date with Destiny’ and mate that’s exactly what it was, wasn’t it?

Richard: Yeah true, it’s exactly like that.

Brett: So it’s always funny when those types of things happen and I’m a massive believer in things happen for a reason and it’s really exciting for you to share those ‘ah hah’ moments with us mate. The question for you in regards to marketing, so, the personal trainer out there, put their hat on for a minute and think, if they just wanting to, if they just were getting started in the industry, or even if they’ve been in the industry for a while and they’re just trying to get more leads into their fitness business. What would be your top 1 or 2 strategies that you would implement to get leads coming through your e-mail inbox or calling?

Richard: Well I guess the first strategy I would, if you’re just a single trainer. You just started. You deciding, maybe you’re out of your course and you deicide do I hit business first, or do I do it myself? You’re going to deicide to do it yourself. I would think that the best strategy you could do is branding. You need to brad yourself because most people probably won’t know you’ve been a trainer, or you did your course. You may have come from a different role, and they think you’re still a legal sectorial or something. I think the first thing to do is brand yourself and one; Get a logo. I think it’s the biggest thing. I think I’m very big into branding and I think get a logo first of all because that’s going to define who you are. If your logo is red, you need to know why it’s been red before. If it is an energy colour. Think about what…who you are as a person and that can go into a logo. Now once you’ve got a logo, I think then you have a business. You have something you can browse. So for 100 bucks or something or even cheaper, you have your identity. You’ve got an identity now and that identity then, you can use that logo and put it on a Facebook page. You can use that logo to put on your Facebook page with your closet friends and family and say share this, I’m a personal trainer. This is what we do. So I think actually telling the world that this is what I do now and putting it out there to the universe and seeing what’s going to come back is probably the first and the cheapest option, number one I’d say.

Obviously online marketing is something I have a big bias towards clearly, so my next sort of thing I’d tell trainers is quite frankly I would, and this is what I’ve done when I had my personal train industry is pretty much get on every single directory you just possibly can. That’s going to skyrocket you faster than you could ever skyrocket yourself and what I mean by that is…if I said to trainers out there “Go get a website first” the problem you’re go into have is, the website costs money, and doing it costs money, and you’re going to showcase it and make sure people find it, costs money, and it costs time. Not only that, it actually costs a lot of research doing these things and you shouldn’t be doing that. If you’re looking at a very early, start-up personal trainer, I’d go and join directories that cost you $2 a month, and they’ll put you into places where people are already searching for personal trainers. Well of course I’m bias, I’ve got a trainer directory, but at the same time too, I believe in my product and I believe that this is how I do them and if you’ve got…of there’s a free personal trainer directory, then get onto that for goodness sakes, but if you’re on 5 directories that already have thousands of visitors and you’re branding yourself correctly with your right logo and a really nice picture of yourself, a fitness picture, no a blurred picture coming out of a pub on a Saturday or something. If it’sthe right picture. The right target market is going to find you, and they’re going to give you a call and you’re going to get an e-mail into your inbox. That’s probably the 2 strategies I’d go with, and that’s the strategies that I’ve used in every single business I’ve run if its fitness or another industry. I’ve always basically…go and find the top players that are already up there and how do I get my brand, my logo, my Facebook link, my web link, on their  page. That’s what I want to know. That’s what I will pay for because I think that that s got value to it versus building those things yourself and wasting your time which should be focused on actually becoming a good personal trainer initially and you can get more referrals that way.

Brett: Again, great insight there mate. I think another one just to take home, just to talk to one of the points you brought up there in regards to directories etcetera. Again if it’s like every single marketing strategy we talk about on this Podcast and we ever will talk about. You need to look at what’s the return on investments. Do if you’re paying 10, 20, 30, 40 even 100 dollars a month to be on a certain directory, but if you’re getting a return on investment each month on that then its’ a no brainer. So you need to calculate how many clients do I need to receive to make this a positive return on investment. Always keep that in the back of your mind before you go “Ah it’s just another $20 here, another $30 here”. You need to look at it and go “am I going to get a return on it this month?” or “How long am I willing to invest in this thing to see if it works?”. So for example if you’re paying $20 a month for a directory. You look at that over 12 months it’s $240. So let’s say over that 12 month period you’ve got one client in the first month, who is worth…if you look at $50 a week over the year, that’s over $2500. You’ve definitely got a return on investment. So keep an eye on that. I think another key part that you said there was, don’t just choose one. Don’t just go and register with True Local and leave it at that. Go and register with every single directory out there, and we’ve touched on a point that in a past episode…you’re not the first person to say that they’re a very great resource to start with. And of course there are free ones out there, so get out there and google it. Google personal trainer directories and no doubt Richards will pop up there and I highly recommend jump on that as well. I’ll give you a link to that so that you can check it out. I’m going to put Richard on the spot and I’m going to say his going to give us all a discount. If anyone goes through and clicks the link…

Richard: Yeah, definitely, we’ll get a discount. Let me just think about the next…the rest of the part of the interview and see what we can do and get you at the end of the call. Get you a…we’ll get a good deal for everybody because honestly I really think, exactly what you said Brett.  This industry really is the right industry to showcase our skills into, cause what other industry and there is every few other industries that people actually want to watch you on a video or they want to read your article about how to get into shape. It’s a pretty exciting industry when you’re first getting into fitness or someone wants to lose weight. People are looking for answers out there, there’s so much messages. If you brand yourself, and that’s what I was saying, if you brand yourself as the local expert in your area. Let’s say you’ve got so much competition out there, I hear it all the time, but really there’s not. If you’ve got 10 personal trainers in your local part you trainer for, for example, you’ve got to then google the area and figure out what the 10 people are doing. You probably got I’d say more than half of those people who probably don’t have an online presence, or if they do, you can’t find it. Then you might have 4 people who do have an online presence. Then you might have 1 person who has a website and are in directories and things like that. The question I have for you, I’d be very highly surprised that out of the people in your area, who’s really taking action as the leader and the expert online.

So put yourself in someone who doesn’t know you as a trainer, yet every trainer out there is great. I hear all the stories. I know that they’re fantastic. They can do the best high kick skills. They can do the best sit up. They’re the best, right. They know they’re the best; they get the best results with their clients. I hear it all. The problem Brett is that I don’t’ know that if I’m coming to the business and they don’t have a showcase of that. If they haven’t written a blog about the best squat and they haven’t, if they’ve just gone and ask their clients and printed it out and said “Here it is”. If you haven’t put it online on a blog, well if you haven’t recorded a video saying ‘this is how we do the best push up’ and ‘this is  how I get a 6 pack and ripped abs in a week in my clients’ or ‘this is how, this is the story that…10 of my clients testimonials’. If only the clients know that and the personal trainer and no other person, well then you’re actually not the best trainer in your area, because nobody knows who you are, and you’re not building an online presence up. You’re not building a brand identity up. So if you look in your local area and see who is doing that. You’d be surprised and that’s where you say “I can be the leader in this area and I can be the biggest and the best, and the most busiest trainer possible because nobody else is probably doing it”. Honestly Brett this is the biggest thing I see, that there is so much opportunity, especially in this industry. People and personal trainers coming in and saying that is absolute rubbish, because I can count on probably one hand some really good people putting out some really good consistent content every single week. There’s very few people doing it, and if you do it, that’s where the leads are going to come from. I can guarantee you that.

Brett: Yeah, totally agree with you there and it’s a bit of a pet peeve for me when I hear people go “There’s just too many trainers out there”, “There’s too many of this”, or “That’s a hard market, that’s a flooded market”, “It’s hard to make money in that market”. I just say that’s a lot of bullshit myself. Our company has had extreme growth in the last 18 months, and if we look at it, and let’s just talk to your couple of points again. The whole thing of branding. We’ve created and Fitness National, we’ve created a very, very prominent brand now. Our brand ‘FitChicks’ for example is…its very rare now that we’ll talk to our target market, someone aged 19-45 and they wouldn’t have heard about us, or heard of us, or seen something from us.

We were down in, and I may have mentioned this is a past episode, but we were down in Sydney, Emily and I. We went down for our 5 year anniversary, and we were down there and we were sitting at the Opera House. We were sitting there having a nice bottle of red and this couple came over and sat down with us and we started talking and this man went they’re from actually Brisbane, and we say what we do, and she’s like “Ah I know that, I’m on your emails,. I’ve been receiving your emails for a few months now”. She’s actually bought one of our products and it’s an amazing thing. It just goes to show you the power of the internet, not only that, the power of being able to have a brand. That’s why we’ve been able to grow the fastest fitness licensed program for professional trainers in Australia because we have a great brand and people want to be a part of it. We’ve got a forum with thousands of girls going we want to be trained here, or we want a location here. The demand of the brand is where it’s at. I totally agree with you in regards to people sending out great content, and doing it continuously. Just in example, we’ve just conducted a survey through our lists. Now we’ve got quite a large list and so far we’ve had over 5000 people fill out our survey. It was 13 questions that we asked and some of the information, I’ve got to tell you, was actually, I’m sitting here slapping myself in the head because…and that’s the power of it. If you haven’t done a survey, anyone out there. This is a gold nugget. Survey your lists, even if you’ve got 100 people on it, survey them. Now, like I said, some of the information we got out of it is just actually staggering. Something I want to share with everyone, I’ll share some of it now because I think it’s really vital and this is something that I know a lot of pole missed out on. I’m just going to find the question here. One of the questions was ‘How do you cope when you use our products or services?’ I just looked here, a second…’so how do you view our current content?’ so when we send out an email, how do they view it. And we can tell you that 46% currently based on what we’ve got here. View it from mainly from their iPhones, their phone devices.

Richard: There you go hey.

Brett: Which is an amazing statistic and what we can actually tell you, out google analytics tell us that there’s actually over 50% of people visit our website from a mobile device which…when you look at a desktop, there’s only 28% of people actually view our content from desktops. So, this is where people fall into that trap of ‘ah I need to have a beautiful looking website. It needs to have beautiful graphics’. It needs to have this and that and all of the bloody jazz that people think they need to have. It’s falling on deaf ears, because if you have a beautiful looking website, you’re not going to be able to view it on a mobile. A mobile just sees it as a single strip, which is why I feel, and in my marketing, I’ll get you to give your opinion on it, it may be different. But, that’s why sales page format is so popular when it comes to getting someone to take some form of action, whether it’s the need to take up a free trial, free offer or purchase a product. Because of the way technology is changing now, in the next 5 years, we’re going to have 70%, 80% of people viewing podcasts on their phone. So what’s your thought on that one mate?

Richard: I know we are on a bit of a tangent but…

Brett: It’s an interesting…the results are in the pudding. You put out a survey and 46% have said that they’re viewing on a mobile and I have to also believe that as well because I look at my analytics on a lot of peoples personal trainer’s websites and they’re all around the same anywhere from 20 to 40, 50% on mobiles. So it doesn’t beg the question that, and I know a lot of people, we all do it. We look at a site on a desktop and we say “Oh that’s great”.

Richard: It is a big point because if your client viewing your mobile platform, you’ve got to make sure obviously, you look good ‘mobilely’… mobilised. If the mobile site or a mobile responsive site, you know, I’m very much in point of it as well. Because I mean otherwise, what’s the point? And maybe that’s why you’re getting the leading that you thought. You should have got in with a nice site, I’ve got another company, and we build websites and we do Facebook and social media strategies as well and the thing is, what we do with a lot of our sites too Brett, is what we do. We keep it looking nice but we keep it looking simple as well. It’s simple with every site, every page, we have one message and one purpose to a page. If you have more than one purpose per page, you may think that you’re getting your message out. But not really, because people are only on your site generally for between a minute, maybe 2 or 3 minutes and people are coming there for a purpose. Not 2 purposes. You generally don’t google for 2 purposes. You 1 question in there, not 2. So its’ the same thing with every page and this is where I go to another site, this is where google has to come up with another algorithm change, and this will sort of put your point across as well Brett is that, to rank highly in google now, you have to have a responsive website. You get more points; you get more google juice basically if you have a responsive website. When I say responsive, meaning that it’s mobile browser friendly. They’re making sure that it’s a WordPress website or something similar like that. And making sure that the load and the speed time, so if you have, Flash, and video files and all these sort of stuff. Google is going to penalise you and not show your results on mobile. So the results you see on your desktop versus mobile in regards to ranking as well can also be different. People are going to rank on the mobiles because they’re mobile responsive. Because google doesn’t want to show any unnecessary results and the same with the searches. They’re not going to show a page with 3 or 4 different situations. They’re going to show a page that just has 1 message and 1 message only and that’s the new algorithm that just came out last week with Hummingbird if anyone is interested in that stuff.

Brett: Probably just us mate it’s the geek come out I think. It’s quite funny if you asked me this 10 years ago I’d go “geez, computer type things” but what I find really interesting about it, I’m a Nazi now on percentages and statistics and this and that and that’s why I did the survey. Not only was the survey conducted to get information. There was an underlying offer that we were able to produce, which in turn has turned out to be a very good financial move from our perspective. Not only that, it’s the millions of dollars of information that you’re going to receive from people. Like questions here, I’ve got ‘How would you like to view our content? Is it more articles, videos, interactive online webinars, podcasts etcetera’. There’s a whole heap of information over here that if you’re not surveying the list and you’re not asking the questions then you’re going to be doing what you feel like you want to do. And that’s the key. For me, part of that is a bit of a struggle because I write here in one of my questions is ‘How often would you like to receive educational content from us?’ and I’d love to send it out every day, and I know a lot of online marketers who do. However, our feedback from this, and it has come around 50% one time a week. Which is great because we are currently doing it about once a week. Sometimes a couple of time a week. But our second on that, ‘every 2 to 3 days’ as well. So it’s really important because if I just decide to once all of a sudden email daily to our contacts. We’re stilling giving away content, what can happen because everyone is so busy in everyday life. You don’t get a chance to read every email. Sometimes it can become such an overwhelming things because I’ve got 20 emails for them to listen to, or for them to read. They’ll probably go ‘ahh I’m just going to unsubscribe because I can’t keep up’. I guess if I relate this to an example of work is to interview podcasts every day. I know for a fact there would be people not listening to it and then they’d just give up because they’d be just too far behind. You know how I get that information is because one of our questions again is ‘Do you listen to our free podcasts?’ and 45% of people say ‘I’ve been meaning to but I just haven’t found the time’. Very interesting they, they’ve been meaning to but they just haven’t found the time yet.

Richard: Yeah, you’ve got to listen to your customers that are for sure.

Brett: So thanks for letting me go on that tangent there. Let’s talk about a little bit about marketing and I guess any insights, anything you feel would be useful for our trainers and listeners out there. Any insights that you’ve learnt in regards to marketing, any strategies that you think is really cool. Maybe you’ve done some promotion of some sorts that’s worked well. Any juicy information that you could help us out with.

Richard: I could…probably the best is…I’ll try and got the easiest option. There’s so many options out there, you know if you look at trainers, I think the best piece of marketing you could probably do and the cheapest and easiest would probably be, as you just mentioned Brett, is put something out to the audience really fast. I’ll give you an example, after I had my book out, I released an audio it was called ‘The fit and healthy family’ and we went to interview seven of the leading experts in the world on healthy families we didn’t know any of these guys at all but we picked up the phone and we asked them and most of them said ‘yes’ pretty much. These are people that have been on Oprah shows and things like that, picked up the phone and asked and they generally said yes and it’s a personal trainer’s lesson is that the easiest way to do it and to get to your market. First example, if you’re trying to market the best MA instructors…I mean, sorry…let’s say you have MA classes right. What you’d want to do if I was that trainer trying to attract hat audience. I’d go interview the best MMA trainers or instructors out there and just have a bit of a question to them and basically ask what does a great MMA session include etcetera, etcetera. And it’s not for the saying that the trainers, the clients are going to go to them. These are the clients that might be overseas, or wherever they may be. If you go interview 10 or 20 people in your industry, in your speciality I should say not industry, regarding that. You know cross fit. Why don’t you go to the cross fit games and go interview all the cross fit experts and the world champs and that sort of stuff. It means that, when you come back and you put that as a video or an article or things like that. I do think that the right people and the good client is going to consistently come to you and I think that’s really an easy way of marketing and also makes you again the expert out there. I keep coming back because when you are on TV, I guess from my example, as soon as you’re on TV, that TV set or that YouTube which people can now view on their TV in their lounge room, you’ve actually become the expert. Even If you don’t think you’re the expert, you’ll naturally become the expert. So I think, and when we look at our lifestyle out there and our senses, whenever you’re in that…when you look and go ”aah there’s a celebrity” and so forth, inside they’re still human beings and at the end of the day they’re celebrities because they’ve done well for themselves, if that’s from the movies or on TV. It comes down to, because they’re in a box, a TV, and people watch them. That’s what it comes down to. So, it’s not saying that they go and get on the highest rating TV show, it’s basically saying to your speciality, when people are searching for you. Make sure that you come up and make sure that you are that person. I know it’s very similar to the point I made before, but to be honest with you that’s probably the simplest way to do it and the free way to do it as well. It doesn’t cost you much money at all. That’s a good tactic. Another tactic again is, give something away. I’m sure you do this if your internet marketing…you’re always giving something away. People are going to give you their e-mails if you’re going to give something away…that are an eBook for goodness sake. I think as trainers we’re pretty smart and we know a lot but the thing is we may not think that a lot to a person. So you know, it could be a 10 page book about ‘how to lose weight’ but the thing is people who are searching for that will find that really valuable and then you’ll be becoming the expert and the thing is, you’ve got their e-mail address and their name, their phone number and then you can contact them and ask them how they went. I think another good way that…we did it obviously; I got my book out and from there a lot of different opportunities come because you meet a lot of different people and you can instantly move things. So getting your book out is a great concept to get the publicity that you need and the free publicity as well. And I guess another great marketing feature is always have a backend Brett, because I think people get stuck here, they say “I want to do this and I want to make sure I advertise to $20 000” and yada yada yada. The thing is, if you just…it’s like a funnel, it’s like going into a store. Let’s say you’re on holiday and you’re wondering through, shopping. You’re in a shopping mall, Westfield, and you go past the store and you’re not really out to shop for anything, but you do see your favourite pair of jeans there and it has a big sign that says ‘95% off’ and outside the shop it has a rack of jeans there. Right. And it’s all the cheap jeans that are of course 95% and what happens is it’s actually getting you to stop and getting you to look through the doors, and even though you may not want to go through, you see your favourite pair of jeans for 95% you’ve got to find them. Even they might be an XXXL but you’re still going to the store knowing that there may be something for them. It’s the same sort of thing with online, if you can give you something that stops people at your website for 2 seconds to fill in a form and don’t talk about the prices and your products, and give something away. I think that’s really the best thing because you can’t really expect people just to pay for products they don’t have any incentive in that. There’s got to be an incentive to get people into your door and it comes down to having good content on your site. They’ve got to stop by. You’ve got to give them something. You can’t expect them to pay for nothing other than the product. I think what you give out, you get back. If you expect them to make a sale with your first phone call well you need to make sure that people have researched you and they’ve seen you and they trust you. It’s a trust factor when it comes to online marketing and any marketing regardless.

Brett: Yeah 100% agree with you as well. It reminds me, it brings up the thing of reciprocity and no doubt you’ve read the book ‘Influence’ by Robert Cialdini?

Richard: I have read that a long time ago, yeah.

Brett: So in that book, and I think it will be good to share it with everyone, and if you haven’t got it, go out and get it, it’s called ‘Influence’ by Robert Cialdini. You get it on Amazon, you can pick it up for probably 10, 12 bucks. In the book they, he follows one human, I guess one law of psychology and one of those is reciprocity. They did this big study and they basically had these high school students and, well university students in a big library and they’re sitting down and doing some work and filling out some test papers etcetera and none of the guys gets up and walks out the room and he comes back with 2 cans of coke and he give the can of coke to the guy sitting next to him. Now the other guy didn’t ask for the can of coke. He just…the guy actually said “look I went out there and I was told I wasn’t allowed to bring it back in so I thought I’d get you one”. So he is building up massive value with this person right now. And he says “well geez, I don’t really even know you and you gave me a can of coke” and what they did was, and this was just their way and how simple this is. If you can adapt this to your business, to your life, to your friendships. Anything. At the end of the test, the guy who bought the can of coke, he asked, he then asked the other gentleman, he said “Hey look mate”, he probably didn’t use the word mate because he was in America, he probably said “Hey bro, would you be interested in buying some raffle tickets because I’ve got some raffle tickets that we’re selling and it’s for a good cause etcetera”. What they found was, they found that there was a 3 times higher up take rate of people buying more raffle tickets if they were given the can of coke first. You look at that and you go it’s that law of ‘give first to receive’ and that is exactly what you’re taking about there in regards to giving away something online. Have you heard that story before Rich?

Richard: Yeah, I’ve heard some really similar stories as well. I hear it time and time again, and everything, I think it comes down to being grateful and giving and receiving and it’s a universe law. Everybody has read this, the power of The Secret, it’s really universal and it does work. It really does work in the smallest of ways. You’ve got to give and you will get, basically,

Brett: And I think something else important to touch on as well is to not go into it expecting something in return as well. That’s the key thing is not to have to expect that…

Richard: Aah, I think that the hard things as well, that most people, you know, consistently have got to always slap our self and say “look, I don’t expect anything in return” that’s the hard thing that most people are…probably get their head around. That’s the tough thing, you’ve got to give, and you’ve got to give.

Brett: An example that I’d use there is you go out with a bunch of friends and “I’ll get dinner” or, “No I’ll get breakfast this time, no worries”, and it almost…and I’ll put my hand up…sometimes it’s almost like “aah it must be their turn” or its an ever evolving thing and guys out there and a lot of girls as well be out there, relate to this one. You go out at night, you go out to town and you go and buy a drink and then someone buys you a drink and you feel obliged that you need to buy them a drink back. That’s the law working there. And I guess I want to just touch upon there quickly the point that you made about becoming a celebrity almost and that’s exactly what it is about. When you’re on Youtube, whether you like it or not, if you’re on YouTube and you put a video up of yourself if someone walks down the street and they see you, they will see you as a…whether it be a D-grade celebrity or whatever. They’ll see you as a higher person than they would have if they had never seen you in a video. Now how I relate to that is example, I worked down this year at a fitness convention in Sydney and we had hundreds of girls come up to us and wanting to meet us because they’d seen us online and they’d been receiving our e-mails, e-mail videos, an d a lot of it you could say, it feels like ‘m meeting a celebrity. Now, the purpose behind that, that I’m just a normal dude. We’re just normal people. We’re out there having a go, and that’s exactly how you create raving fans, just like that. Just wanted to touch on…

Richard: Oh yeah, people who will find you anywhere, you know the thing is most won’t come up and say “Hello” but they’ll definitely will know that, that’s for sure.

Brett: Well let’s look at your example back at ‘The date with destiny’ with Steven. You didn’t know Steven from a bar of soap but I’d almost guarantee and I’d bet my left nut on it, if you’d been watching him online for the past 2 or 3 years videos, this and that. When you met him you would have felt star struck.

Richard: Ya, 100%, of course. It’s like that. It’s even like that when people are watching TV and they see that person, you know one person watches it, they adore, or they go “ah, that’s that person” and the other person goes “ah, whatever”. He doesn’t necessarily mean anything to him. So yeah, definitely.

Brett: It’s always that way and I think it’s always going to continue to be that way and you can…the good thing about it is you can put yourself out there in any sort of show, reality show and it’s like that opening door. It gives you a chance, at the same time you’ve got to have a backing product, and that’s what I was getting to as well. Make sure, if you’re going to get out there have a backend product, to make sure that when you do go out there and people see you and you’re giving away free stuff. You’re eventually going to have a product that can bring you revenue when people do want to come back and connect with you then.

Richard: Exactly. It’s like going through the client journey and basically what you’re doing, is you’re having, if you imagine the client journey as a chain, if you’ve got a front end where you’re offering something for free and then all of a sudden you don’t have another offer. What you’re doing is you’ve got a broken link in the chain but in reality what you’re doing is you’re actually causing a disservice to this customer because at the end of the day we all want to be sold on something that we feel is  going to be good for us. We like to be taken on journeys and if…whenever you see a great marketing strategy and for some reason you’re online and you’re checking something out. I’ll use the example, the other night I was about 22:15 and I was lying in bed and I just for some reason I clicked into my e-mail because I was excepting an e-mail for someone and I looked at it and I actually got distracted by this other e-mail. I was looking through it, read the other e-mail, going through, and then I watched a 15 minute video and then I was taken to another video and the next thing I know; I spent $200 on a product. It was an amazing journey. You know if that product wasn’t available that person would have been doing me a disservice because I wanted more. I was left wanting more and it’s just like it when I say a prospect actually expresses interest in your fitness business. With our ‘Fit Chick’ locations for example, we have a 24 hour policy. You need to call that person within 24 hours, because what’ they’ve done is put their head on for a minute. You know, you’re…they’re sitting there. They’ve expressed interest in coming and trying out your area or your business. They want to know what the next step is now. They don’t want to wait 2 to 3 days for the broken link in the chain. So like I said, it’s very important to have that backend strategy. So I couldn’t agree more with that.

Brett: so let’s change back here a little bit. I just want to ask you a question being a leader of the fitness industry. “Where do you see the fitness industry heading in the next 5 years?’

Richard: I think the fitness industry is going…I think it’s’ going different places and I think this…you know, I don’t know about, I think this, if anybody has ever travelled to places I think Australia has, the Australian fitness industry probably has so much fitness opportunities; gyms, personal trainers on every street corner I see here. Where I go to their places in different countries is not really like that. I think that this industry in Australia is very strong. People are becoming aware and it’s becoming more of a norm to be fit. Most definitely. So I think that it is going from strength to strength. Obviously there is going to be some changes. Still a very new industry remember. So it’s 30 years old possibly, if that. It’s a new industry so there’s going to be new growth to anybody who is in the fitness industry now. There’s only a few key players out there, I mean we are still very small. I do think there’s a lot of room for growth being a new industry. I think that obviously the trainers that are coming through, yeah there’s going to be a heap of trainers going through and yeah there’s going to be the good ones and the bad ones. But eventually the good ones will rise because when more people get educated, they would have continued to go those good ones. I think that we are getting more regulated all the time and it’s a good think. I think the fitness industry has strength, but I also think that people become smarter. These are things that we’ve got to now get a bit more serious as being business owners and making sure that you can’t just be a sloppy trainer expecting to keep a client for live. You have got to get a result and you’ve got to deliver…you’ve got have a really good result and service as well. I think there’s a lot of people out there listening to podcasts like this and that’s learning and has business place, and they’re the one that is going to be getting more and more spaces and more presence out there so you’ve got to remember there is going to be competition, but competition is a good think. As long as the trainers stay strong and actually stay educated I think it’s very different.

Brett: excellent, so excellent. Thanks for sharing that buddy. So I guess to just touch on that as well with regards to, like you said, the good ones will prevail, or the good trainers will rise about the rest. I guess if we just want to add that, the good trainers who understand marketing will rise above the rest.

[Laughter]

Richard: Yeah 100%.100% and I think, you can have the best, biggest biceps and triceps, but as I said before people need to know how you made those biceps and triceps. How that marketing has come about. Most definitely.

Brett: Yeah, great. So look we’re coming up to the end of our time. I’ve got one more question for you. It’s something that I’m a real big fan of these types of things and Id like to ask you, what’s one of your favourite analogies?

Richard: My favourite analogy. I guess my favourite analogy is, aah there’s a few quotes and analogies out there.  I think it would be…

Brett; Tough question to think about there isn’t it?

Richard: I think it’s like, people say ‘the grass is greener on the other side’ and it’s always been…I’ve used that analogy for a lot of times over the years. The problem is I think that it’s the wrong analogy a little bit. I think the right one is ‘the grass is greener where you water it’ and I’ve been in many situations where you think this guy is doing it better or that company is bigger or this and that. You know, comparing yourself to places that you should be at the moment or other people that’s doing it. You’re actually doing a disheart to yourself and your pride and who you are. I think everybody is on their own journey and it’s important to realise that nobody is on that journey except you. Yeah that person may take that journey efficiently but your journey is very personal and it’s important to make sure that if you are taking the journey. If you’re here and not there, well, be the best you can be right here and give this love and give this care and give yourself self-love where you’re at the moment because otherwise you’re not going to get or experience being on the other side of the grass because you’re never going to get there if you don’t actually give it an effort, and give it some work. If you sort of want to get…if you’re in the phase and want to get…you see the grass over there and you want to get over. Well you’ve got to first water and make effort on this grass so that you can get over there. Otherwise you’ll never get over there and you think about it…the analogy of the moment I’d say.

Richard: I love it. I love it.

Richard: but I think to add to that, there’s this really cool website called ‘the universe’ don’t know if anybody has heard of it but I haven’t joined it, my wife has joined it. What happens is you put your name in there, your name ‘Richard’ what time and day you want to see me, that thing. What happens then, like I’m not joined as I said but every time it comes it goes  “Dear Joey, you are magical. You’re going into amazing times ahead” and the way its written it’s sort of talking about…its really individualised obviously, with auto-responders, but I always like to read it out if we’re at home at night or something and I’ll see mostly updates, but it’s just the way that’s its written I’m like ah, it always means something at that time in your life because analogy it has more meaning at a certain time if you’re going through something and it’s called ‘The Universe’ google it. It’s a simple thing…

Brett: I’m going to google it now, you say ‘The Universe’ isn’t it?

Richard: It’s not…you can check it online…it’s not selling you things. It’s coming up with the actual universe, as you would expect. I’ll make sure I get the link and then you can put it on the Podcast….

Brett: yeah, we’ll do that.

Richard: I’ll definitely get a link and I will ask what it is. It’s got quotes and something. It’s just a really cool way to give yourself a bit of…get a bit of goodness. Because I think that everybody needs a bit of goodness all the time. At the moment that’s what it is. But it always changes, same as the quotes, they always change don’t they all the time, your favourite quotes and things like that.

Brett: actually I love that analogy ‘the grass is always greener’. The thing is we all start off with a seed and the more you water it, the more grass you have. The more grass you have the more land you have. The more land you have, the more ability to build on that land and reach more people etcetera.  Love it. I’ve written that one down, and I’ll be keeping that and using that. Thank you very much.

Richard: Yeah, so you get that.

Brett: Well I guess we’re at that time mate where you have to go and water your grass and I’ve got to go and water my grass now. But, for all our listeners, I know that I put you on the spot a little bit earlier about looking g at a good deal for our trainers here to get registered on your personal trainer database, that can help them get some clients and so forth. So, what we will do, we will put a link on this particular podcast. So I’d, if you’re listening on iTunes, you’ll need to go to fiitprofessional.com.au and click on podcasts, and you’ll be able to see the episode that says ‘Richard Marc’. But, if anyone else wants to find out anything about you, follow you etcetera. Where can they find out more about you?

Richard: I guess the best place they can follow is, they can get me on Facebook. I’m not active at the moment because I’ve got my head down, but I’m always on Facebook, I’m always checking it. It’s just Richard Marc, or Richard Marc. Find me there and I’ve actually, I’ve got to tell you, each show I do, I got you last time in it, and it cause getting more they can check out some episodes there and you can always sort of see my personality there. Connect through Facebook is probably the best way I’d say. If you want to get direct, it’s probably the easiest way I’ll take action if you want to chat and do something like that. That’s probably the best way. I’ve got websites, obviously you can go to you can go to…I’ve got an online marketing company as well which is completeonlinemarketing.com.au and they’re probably he best places to go so we deal with different things and different strategies and things like that. You can check out that, but yeah, probably getting the best one you can check out a whole heap of people and check out me and got some contact information there as well, Facebook and things like that. As I said Brett, just google me, I’m all over the web. I’ve left my footprints everywhere.

Brett: I hope there’s no photos of you back in the day in your spandex and belt bag, that’s all I can say.

Brett: well thank you once again Richard. Thanks again for taking the time out. I know you’re a terribly busy man. Got a lot on. But I know there’s a heap of gross information you shared here today and I know you’ll get a lot of listeners going to take action right now and go…

Richard: About that offer you said, back to that offer you said Brett. What I can do for your listeners, these personal trainers, what we can do is we can do a 30 day free offer for everybody. Not that you can do that on the website, so I’ll put a link in there so basically you just want to send an e-mail to admin@meetyour.com.au just basically if you could put your name, Fiit Professionals and Brett Campbell in the header and we will know that it’s come from this and Nick, who looks after that division can make sure that he sign you up and get you on the site, and make you look good online. You can actually see the benefits of having a good profile. 1 for branding, 2 for SEO and 3 obviously getting leads for 30 days for free, no credit card required. Just pretty much you can see, you know, be good to yourself and actually try the methods out that we are talking about which honestly, the ones who do try are the ones that get the results. So I would love to do that as a gift to you guys.

Brett: Excellent, look, very much appreciated and if you’re a listener and you haven’t already written down that e-mail…rewind that and get it. You need to take action on this, this is the guy who has had massive amounts of experience in the industry now offering you something for free to go jump on onboard and go and see, try it out and see if you like it. See if you get a response. I know past coaching clients of mine who have tired this before and using it and have got clients from it, so definitely got my backing there. So I’ll put information underneath this podcast with the direct link so you can take action on that. So once again, thank you Richard again for your time mate. Go on and enjoy your weekend, and we’ll be talking very soon!

Richard: Great. Thanks guys, thank you Brett. I appreciate the time and I appreciate the listening.

Brett: Take care, bye!